Hieu Trong Phan

Hieu Phan [00:00:00] My name is Hieu Phan.

Interviewer [00:00:02] And where were you born?

Hieu Phan [00:00:04] I was born in Nha Trang Vietnam.

Interviewer [00:00:07] Yes. And what year?

Hieu Phan [00:00:09] 1967.

Interviewer [00:00:11] 1967. And when you think about your childhood in Vietnam, what  do you remember the most?

Hieu Phan [00:00:20] The most I remember. Or I would like to remember is when, I was a  student, you know, go to school with friends and things like that yeah.

Interviewer [00:00:29] And did you have brothers and sisters?

Hieu Phan [00:00:32] I have three sisters, three younger.

Interviewer [00:00:35] Three sisters. And your parents? What did they do in Vietnam?

Hieu Phan [00:00:40] My mom was working in the place called How They Do Experiment  about Blood. That's the name of the company called Pasteur. Yeah. They were working in  animal experiments. And then my dad and my dad was in the Navy.

Interviewer [00:01:02] He was in the Navy?

Hieu Phan [00:01:03] Yes.

Interviewer [00:01:04] Did you see him often back then?

Hieu Phan [00:01:06] Back then, yes.

Interviewer [00:01:09] So he wasn't stationed.

Hieu Phan [00:01:11] At the time I was born, no, he was not. Before I heard he was. But  after that, he. He got stationed in the city in Nha Trang where we, you know, stay, so. I  see. I saw him every day pretty much.

Interviewer [00:01:28] So when you think about the time that you were in school, did you  and your classmates understand that there was a war going on in Vietnam?

Hieu Phan [00:01:40] Well, actually at the time that I was in school. It was like after 75, a  couple of years before that. But, you know, we always little kids, we don't think that much.

Interviewer [00:01:57] You don't understand it.

Hieu Phan [00:01:59] We, we don't even now. I mean, I remember we don't talk about it.  It's like six, seven years old kids. You know, we don't talk about war. We you know, I mean, like when I was born, I remember, like, my mom would carry me and and hide under the bed because this bomb, you know, happened around the area. But that that's it.  No, we don't talk about war when you know we are that little. And after that is the South  Vietnam lost the battle to the North. So then we went to school and after 75. And I mean  we at that age, I don't remember that we discuss about war among our friendship. Or things like that.

Interviewer [00:02:54] What about at home?

Hieu Phan [00:02:56] At home.

Interviewer [00:03:02] What was it like at home?

Hieu Phan [00:03:04] What do you mean, In the angle in the context talking about the  war?

Interviewer [00:03:10] No. What was your life like at home? Like what do you remember?  What were your parents around a lot?

Hieu Phan [00:03:18] Well, my, my, my. My dad, most of the time, he he he was at what they call the, the re-educational camp. My mom, like, have to do a lot of things to help us  to survive. Most of the time my sister and I would stay with my mom the most because my  my dad was away in the re-educational camp. So we cook, you know I mean I still  remember like we cook rice, I would cook rice and try to fire up those thing. It's not like  here we get to turn on and off and the gas come up and lit up everything, there we had to  blow and, you know, we all get ash all over.

Interviewer [00:04:08] Make a fire.

Hieu Phan [00:04:11] Yeah. It's a good summer, you know, memory. Yeah.

Interviewer [00:04:14] Yeah. How long was your father in reeducation camp? Was it a few  months? A few years?

Hieu Phan [00:04:20] Oh is it, like. Around like 7 or 8 years?

Interviewer [00:04:25] Wow. Did you get to see him at all?

Hieu Phan [00:04:28] Ah, I, I, I went with my mom to visit him when he was at the camp  and brings him some food and things like that. Yeah but that's it you know, after that, I only  saw him when I go to visit him.

Interviewer [00:04:47] Did you understand or know why he was at the reeducation.  

Hieu Phan [00:04:52] Camps at that age? I was.

Interviewer [00:04:56] You did understand. How did you feel?

Hieu Phan [00:05:00] To be honest, I don't know what. I don't. I don't know how to feel. I  mean, like, I know that we lost the war, and, you know, and then since my dad was like  one of the soldier in the previous government, So now he in that camp, and I said, I, I  really don't think any further, to be honest.

Interviewer [00:05:22] Was school different after 75 was going to school different. Did it  feel different.

Hieu Phan [00:05:33] Feel different in in the way they they education us o in the way the  environment?

Interviewer [00:05:37] Both

Hieu Phan [00:05:39] For the environment. No, I enjoy it. Like it's like. I have friend we,  we, we play, we do stuff and, you know, I don't think it's any different. And back then. For  like kind of the way they educated us. I remember at the time, at the moment I was a  student. I think it's not very bad. I mean, like, yeah, they. Looking back now I sit and think  about a lot of things that they, they taught us is what was a bunch of lie story that they  make up and they try to they like to ingest those fake story into us.

Hieu Phan [00:06:34] But at that time we don't know we don't know is that are they like  they they talk about like Anh Hùng Nguyễn Văn Trỗi and lấp lỗ châu mai whatever and  now when I now at this age I found out that this is fake story they make it up they make it  up so they can kind of like how do I say they they, they they try to boost up the spirit of the  North Vietnam soldier.

Hieu Phan [00:07:10] The the mental is very I think the mental is very do a lot of of major  thing in how you survive even in the very like hard or very severe condition. If your mental  and your will is strong. You can overcome that. So those story. They make it up and they make like people think like this is the real story happen in the real life. Make the other  people think, “Yeah they can do that so probably we follow we can do it too.” So I think  that's what they they try to do. Well at that time they try to input those stories into us. Into  their.

Interviewer [00:08:01] Ideas?

Hieu Phan [00:08:02] Idea into our brain. But at that time, when I was a student, I did not  know all of that. So, yeah, we love wherever they teach us. Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

Interviewer [00:08:15] So when did your family start thinking about leaving Vietnam?

Hieu Phan [00:08:19] Yeah. So when my my, my dad got his first release, which is in  1979. Yeah. Around like, yeah. 79. At that time they, they very strictly on the family that  have a member that was involved in the previous government you know thing like that. So they were watching us most of the time kind of you know they closely watching you see  what you do and things like that.

Hieu Phan [00:09:05] And also at the time in our area when they tried to push the family  that had the member involved in the previous government into the jungle, kinh tế mới.

Interviewer [00:09:17] Yes.

Hieu Phan [00:09:18] Yes. They put they tried to move those family into the jungle and put  you there. They going to put us in there and let us survive, is you survive--

Interviewer [00:09:26] Nếu la economic zone không?

Hieu Phan [00:09:30] It's kind of it's jungle. I mean, like, you go in there, you, you, you,  you take down the tree and you survive yourself

Interviewer [00:9:36] Build your own house.

Hieu Phan [00:9:37] Yeah. You grow whatever you can grow there to, to, to, for you, to the  food for you to eat. Whatever you do that you know not that’s kind of like. I think that's kind  of like punishment, you know what I'm saying? So at that time my dad say probably we are  thinking about our escape. Vietnam. At that time, yes, we did. We hooked up with someone in Vietnam. And then we, we tried to escape.

Interviewer [00:10:08] We tie the whole family.

Hieu Phan [00:10:09] The whole family. Yeah. And my parents. Me and my sister. And  thing is not going right at that time. The. If we got caught, to make it short we got caught.

Interviewer [00:10:27] Tell me how you got caught.

Hieu Phan [00:10:37] The. We got caught because of like. Think back then the people that  now create this escape plan or the trip they try to bribe those like police, Vietnamese  Police. And the way they pride them try to bought them is not evenly—

Interviewer [00:11:00] Spread?

Hieu Phan [00:11:01] Spread out. So some for some reason like they found out. So the  the the one that get paid less kind of pissed off, upset. And they they they went off for that  and then they, they spread out the news that there is a group trying to escape, you know,  in that. And then the, the police came the other one. Then, we get, we get caught like that.

Interviewer [00:11:35] Were you put in jail?

Hieu Phan [00:11:37] Yes, I was, since at that time. I was only like. I was in sixth grade.  So, yeah, I was a minor, so I had to stay with my mom, me, my sisters, stay with my mom.  And my daddy got caught and they put him in a separate place. So, yes, I did stay in that  camp for like almost three months. And then we got the lease. Yeah.

Interviewer [00:12:15] What was it like? Do you remember? I know you were so young.

Hieu Phan [00:12:18] Yeah. I mean, we didn't think much about. We know, like, you know,  we're not at home. We didn't think about the politics or whatever that I was. It was in some  kind, like, outside the city in the forest. So, I mean. Yeah, well, I we just go day by day  because where can we go? I'm my mom in there, so I have to stay with her.

Hieu Phan [00:12:45] So, yeah, we, we just, you know, eat whatever they give us, they  provide us and we play. There some other the kids in there too, because they went with  their family. So we play together. We cast some cricket and then we played and that's it. Yeah, but we stayed there for almost three months.

Interviewer [00:13:08] Wow. Was your dad okay?

Hieu Phan [00:13:09] No. After that, they put him in the camp.

Interviewer [00:13:17] They took him back to camp.

Hieu Phan [00:13:18] Yeah, because he just get released. So they. They still remember  his face. So they say, like a he's like a stubborn. You know, he just release. He didn't do  good, and now he try to escape. So they put him in in the refugee camp. I mean, reeducation camp again.

Interviewer [00:13:40] So how long this time?

Hieu Phan [00:13:42] That was, like, I think, like for another four years.

Interviewer [00:13:46] For another four years. So when he got released again, did you try  again?

Hieu Phan [00:13:29] Yeah, we try. We try so many times.

Interviewer [00:13:54] How many times?

Hieu Phan [00:13:56] For the first time, which was happening in 1979 and to the day that  we actually were able to escape from Vietnam were, 85, I think. Are we tried like six times?

Interviewer [00:14:12] Wow.

Hieu Phan [00:14:15] Yeah. Yeah. So that's the six times. And the sixth time we finally,  success, escape from Vietnam.

Interviewer [00:14:20] So the other times did you go to jail again?

Hieu Phan [00:14:22] No. The other times, thing is, we we we. We go to the place, we wait  for the, the small boat to take us out to the big one so we can go. Things happen during  that time so we just get back home. Yeah. We didn't get caught, in those times. Yeah. So like the escape was getting, exposed or whatever. So we cannot stay there in the, the, the,  the the small taxi or boat. They escape, they run so we just walk back home. We go back  up.

Interviewer [00:15:05] Yeah. But it must have cost a lot of money to go six times.

Hieu Phan [00:15:08] Well, I believe it costs some because we don't. I mean, I believe the  deal that my mom and my my dad make with the people that running the thing were. You.  You don't pay them in full.

Interviewer [00:15:26] Tell me more.

Hieu Phan [00:15:27] Yeah. You pay them like, maybe like some, like half and when your  relative or your, you know, your spouse or your kid get to the thing and then you pay the  rest because. Because that time we don't go the whole family anymore. We learn. We  learned our lesson back in 1979. Which is we lost everything. So my mom had to work  really hard to build up things again. You know, for for us to leave, to--

Interviewer [00:16:06] Save money.

Hieu Phan [00:16:07] Save money and things like that. So it's very hard for her at that time  to to rebuild from from scratch. We got when we got caught back in 79, we lost everything  when we completely lost everything. We come back home with, like, empty handed.

Interviewer [00:16:25] They took.

Hieu Phan [00:16:26] They took everything. The house and everything they took. Yeah.  When you escape, when you get caught, they took your house. Yeah.

Interviewer [00:16:32] So where did you live after that?

Hieu Phan [00:16:34] So when we get back, we. We live with my grandpa place. Yeah. So  from from that incident, we learned that in a lesson. We don't go the whole family anymore  because we cannot afford another thing like that. And we have to build everything from the  scratch, again, it's not easy.

Interviewer [00:16:57] Yes.

Hieu Phan [00:16:58] So at that time, my mom say just me and my dad go ahead before  you know then you know she stay so hopefully we can get to United State and after we get  a green card and from that, then my my dad can sponsor her over, you know. Any escape that we tried to make after is just between me and my dad. We. We just both me and my  dad go. My mom and my sister stay.

Interviewer [00:17:33] How did they make the decision for you to go with your dad and not  your dad and like an older sister.

Hieu Phan [00:17:41] At that time like, I think they wanted me to become a communist  soldier. Soldier of the communist government. At that time, we have, like, war between like  Vietnam and Căm chia.

Interviewer [00:17:57] Cambodia

Hieu Phan [00:17:58] Cambodians and thing like that so. So my mom say, now, I don't  want you to to be involved with their government. Like, be their soldier. So you go. Why  don't you go. You go with your dad. So that's why my dad and I try to escape,

Interviewer [00:18:15] How old were you when you left with your dad?  

Hieu Phan [00:18:17] The final time, the final time I left with my dad is when I was 18. 

Interviewer [00:18:22] 18.

Hieu Phan [00:18:23] Yes.

Interviewer [00:18:24] And you knew exactly what was going to happen then. 

Hieu Phan [00:18:27] At that time? I do. Absolutely. Yes.

Interviewer [00:18:30] Did you help him plan it?

Hieu Phan [00:18:32] No.

Interviewer [00:18:33] Did you know the day you were going to leave in advance?

Hieu Phan [00:18:37] No, I did not. Because, I mean, they keep a secret. They don't want  you know, they don't want, like, me accidentally spitting out the thing and then taking it  and.

Interviewer [00:18:48] Other people find out.

Hieu Phan [00:18:52] So no, they they they discuss with the people that organize the  escape and they deal with that. And then I just go, yeah, they they didn't let me know.

Interviewer [00:19:05] What year was that? Do you remember if you were 18?  

Hieu Phan [00:19:10] That was 85.

Interviewer [00:19:12] 85? Yes. So do you remember the day, like what happened that  day that you left?

Hieu Phan [00:19:21] This was April. April 3rd or April 4th.

Interviewer [00:19:24] What was that day, like?

Hieu Phan [00:19:26] 1985, kind of like nervous. Kind of nervous. Because you. You think  things have been going south in the previous time. So you. Yeah, you. You nervous, but  you don't know what to expect. I mean, you just go.

Hieu Phan [00:19:40] I call into the plan whatever they asked you to you just follow it, you  try your best and you keep your fingers crossed and hopefully you can make it happen this  time. You you get nervous because people around. I mean, you don't know who is who  kind of like that, who going to notice that you are people or try to escape and report on  you? You don't know. So you are nervous when you stay in some place, like waiting for. A  bus to pick you up or take you to another place.

Hieu Phan [00:20:21] You are. You look strange to those local people. You are not there.  They they they. They know you are not from their local area because of the the way you  act, the look, they be able to tell. So we nervous because we don't know like. Do they  know that we are escaping, you know. So that, we feel very nervous and we just say, just,  you know, act cool, you know, pretend that you are passing by, you know, hopefully  nobody will say anything. I think that must have been my feeling that I have at that time.

Interviewer [00:21:07] Did you take anything with you?

Hieu Phan [00:21:08] No, there’s no time. Just a small bag of clothes.  

Interviewer [00:21:12] Do you remember saying bye to your mom?

Hieu Phan [00:21:17] Yeah. Yeah. We say bye.

Interviewer [00:21:19] What was that like? Like, were you afraid that you wouldn't see her  again?

Hieu Phan [00:21:24] Yeah. I mean, it's a bittersweet feeling, like. Like, you not you're not  gonna see her my mom, again. But it's kind of like, hey, you trying to escape. So you  probably, if you succeed then, then you won't be able to see her in some time. I mean, like,  it's not like, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna see my mom forever. You know? I  know it. If the trip is is going successfully. I'm gonna. I'm not going to be in Vietnam, so of  course I'm going to miss my mom. I'm not going to see her. For how many time? How  many year? How long? I don't know. But yeah, it kind of, yeah. Bittersweet feeling like that  at that moment.

Interviewer [00:22:14] Yeah can you describe the trip leaving Vietnam? How many people  were on the boat with you?

Hieu Phan [00:22:19] Yeah. At that. At that day, we were waiting for the, some kind of bus  to come pick us up. We were waiting about, like, almost, like, two hour. Then the bus, a big  bus that taking people like from place to place back in Vietnam được gọi là xe đỏ.

Hieu Phan [00:22:44] So when when that bus come we get on. We saw only people sitting  up there, you know, sit up there on the bus. So it they pick up people from place to place,  try to take us to the to the destination, I guess. So then we. We get on the bus. We got on  the bus.

Hieu Phan [00:23:13] It moving North of the main Quoc Lo Mot or Route one, moving  North. We sat on the bus for like almost four hour. And then we we get to the small kind of  small, small mountain, would you say. And they let us get off at that that in that place called Đèo Cù Mông. That's like before we get to Quy Nhon so and then we get off. So we  followed the guy, the leader.

Hieu Phan [00:23:50] Yeah, we we walked to I mean, like, beautiful. I remember the  beautiful sand ocean sand. It's wide. And it's so. Yeah. I mean, at that time is kind of  getting dark because, like, 7 p.m. or something like that so it kind of dark but the sand. The  moon the sand and the sand go up so wide so I said man this is so beautiful, you know?

Hieu Phan [00:24:14] And then we walked to that and then we get to the some kind like  lake or something like that. So there's a small boat take us from one side of the lake to  another side. And we went and everyone get to the other side we keep moving. We follow  the leader. We keep moving. We walk in. And then we got to some kind, like small pond  with a switch well water. And then they hand us of, a back kind of nylon bag and ask us to  get the water, that’s your drinking water they say. So everyone have to get their own  water.

Interviewer [00:24:57] To fill in the.

Hieu Phan [00:24:58] To fill in the bag keeping with you because they say that is your drinking water. So. So we then we we get the water and we keep moving keep moving to  another place and another small boat waiting for us to get us all and move us to the bigger the one that we will use to to escape the country. So when we get on the, the boat, the big  one, I mean, it's not a big one, but it's kind of like a very good size. It was like 106 people  was on the boat at that time.

Interviewer [00:25:41] Was it tight?

Hieu Phan [00:24:44] It's very tight because some people stay like, women and children  and kids probably stay underneath where those like some area that they put in fish when  because that's a fishing boat. So those kind of people like women and children, like that  stay underneath and some like. Big guys stay on top. Yeah. And stay underneath is very tight to me. You know, like I sit like this and another guy right next to me, we just sit  around. So we go. We travel. I don't know how many day I couldn't remember anymore.

Interviewer [00:26:31] Did you get seasick?

Hieu Phan [00:26:33] I mean, on the boat? No, I did not. Surprisingly, I did not. A lot of  people, you know, they got seasick so badly, like they cannot do anything. They just lay on  the floor and throw up vomit, keep vomiting, and they get vomit. Right. And they they they  lay there on it because they don't know, you know.

Interviewer [00:26:55] There’s nowhere to go.

Hieu Phan [00:26:56] No, nowhere to go. And also, they they they got seasick that badly there. They just lay there. They don't have any more energy or they need to move  anywhere. Yeah, I remember. That's a lot of, like, especially, like, women. They, they got  seasick so badly and they, they oh my goodness. They keep vomitting, you know, right  after another one.

Hieu Phan [00:27:21] Yeah, but. But not a lot. Though, to be honest, it's like I can  remember probably like ten or something like that. Yeah. Not not a lot we have 106 people  on the boat. So, you know, we keep going. And then, I remember one morning that. We  we got stuck on the the boat get stuck. What is that you call sand hole?

Interviewer [00:28:01] Like a sinkhole where like a whirlpool where the water just swirls.

Hieu Phan [00:28:11] No, no, no sand hole. I mean, the the the. The thing that crawl under  the sea.

Interviewer [00:28:15] Coral.

Hieu Phan [00:28:16] Coral! Yeah. Coral. That's right. I forgot, the word. The coral in that  area, there's a lot of coral around. And we would, we were going to throughout the night so  we couldn't be see much. So the boat was right on top. Yeah. So we cannot move  anymore. We stuck there.

Hieu Phan [00:28:35] So the, the, the people that run the boat and things like that they try  so many ways they couldn't get the boat, get out of that and keep moving. Right. So the so  they say, okay, well this is the last solution everyone get off the boat. Except for whoever  don't know how to swim will stay on the boat. Who will know how to swim? Get off the  boat. So hopefully the boat gonna, like, get lighter and then raise up a little bit and we, you  know, we can move out, which is, it did

Interviewer [00:29:11] It worked?

Hieu Phan [00:29:13] It worked. So most of the men and some female, some lady who  know, swim, jump off and then the boat gets a little bit lighter. And then.

Interviewer [00:29:23] It lifted.

Hieu Phan [00:29:24] Yeah, lifted. And then we slowly move out of that and everybody get  back on. And I say, oh my goodness, you know what a thing. You know. Right. So and and  a little a little about actually. Let me go back a little bit. When we left there is around Quy Nhon.

Hieu Phan [00:29:45] So the plan that we try to escape is go to Philippines. So from Quy  Nhon, we can go directly to Philippines, which is. According to what I know roughly about  three or three and a half to four days goes straight straight to two the Philippines. That's  where we want to to to go. On the way out. The group running the thing, they found out  that. The oil for the for the engine is not enough because the people that move the the the  oil, the crew’s oil to run the engine, they cheating they put some water in there they put  some. It is not all oil it has kind of water.

Hieu Phan [00:30:42] We need like ten can of oil to move from point A to point B. Now we  have like 6 cans. So we don't have enough. And the food that we were supposed to have  on the boat is some rice paper. And the rice paper got bad because oil got spilled on it.  Can’s eat, some of them, but not every. So since like we we don't have enough a crude oil  to get to our destination which is Philippines and the food we get there you know bad because we get oil in there so we are thinking.

Hieu Phan [00:31:27] Because they don't want to get into the international sea and we  don't have any more few oil to go so we just gloat there. We don't know when there are  some people going to go by and help us or pick us up. It's kind of very Like we are kind of  it's like risky, right? You, you, you, you try to push your luck because the ocean is very  huge.

Hieu Phan [00:31:54] You know, where you don't see anything. So they say, okay, we  cannot pursue with our plan, the original plan anymore. Then we change. So instead of  like so let's say, Vietnam here we go straight out to to to Philippines. We moving North. As  we get out here we found out we don't have enough fuel or oil and things so we cannot  keep going straight, we moving North.

Interviewer [00:32:24] What’s North?

Hieu Phan [00:32:25] We're moving North.

Interviewer [00:32:27] Yes, but where North?

Hieu Phan [00:32:30] North is like you go up to like Hong Kong.

Interviewer [00:32:34] So you're thinking I'm going to Hong Kong?

Hieu Phan [00:32:37] Well, we have to move North. Well, I think the plan at that time they  tried to do was they tried to go along the island. So just in case something happened, they  can go back. Go in and get help or whatever. I think that's what they are planning.

Hieu Phan [00:32:54] So. And when we move North that’s we stuck in the coral on that  day. Then we get out. And then after we get you of the coral thing, we stop by one small  island of some. Some kind of island I think. And, this was like, Chinese, Chinese soldier

was there So we. We stop there. Ask for more, crude oil and some kind of food so we can,  you know, keep going, you know, survive and keep going.

Interviewer [00:33:29] They give it to you?

Hieu Phan [00:33:30] They gave us some crude oil and some, like, Luong Kho, you know,  like the food that you eat and just like rice for a soldier and you eat and drink water it  expand so it make you feel full. So they gave us some but the trade off is that they took  our map and the compass.

Interviewer [00:33:57] Why did they take it?

Hieu Phan [00:33:58] They took it.

Interviewer [00:33:59] Why?

Hieu Phan [00:33:59] I don't know. They just took it. They took it away from us. They gave  us food then, they say go. They took the equipment from us. The compass and the map.  And then they gave us some oil and then some Luong Kho. And they say go.

Hieu Phan [00:34:17] Well, we don't have choice. So we say, okay, we go. But it's dark.  So we go away from that that port. And then we we stop. Because its dark we don't get we  don’t get through to the coral again because you know it dark we can't see. And we don’t have map or whatsoever. So we. We stopped there and wait to the next day so we can  see, you know, we can keep moving. And then the next day we we keep moving on the  next morning.

Hieu Phan [00:34:50] Then we saw a small fishing boat of of small speedboat and we  asked if they had the map. We we buy from them. Which they did. They have a very small,  very small map. I mean, like look like some, like from the some notebook or whatever.  Right? But hey, it's better than nothing. So we bought that map from them.

Interviewer [00:35:14] Did they know what you were trying to do? You were trying to  leave?

Hieu Phan [00:35:17] I don't know, they were Chinese. So we have someone on the boat speak and Chinese. So they communicate with the boat. So they sell us the map with  some gold so we can. Then we asked them, Where's Hong Kong? They point, they point  the direction. So we keep going.

Hieu Phan [00:35:36] And at that time of how how we move in, in the wide, you know,  ocean something like that with no compass and nothing. I think they were based on the  sun, the moon and the star to, to to know which direction they go with. So we keep going.  And I don't know how many today on the sea like that. And we saw another boat and we  asked. And they say, Yeah, go that direction. That's Hong Kong. And we follow. Then we  finally get to Hong Kong.

Interviewer [00:36:09] Wow.

Hieu Phan [00:36:11] Yes, we get to Hong Kong and then. We are. They are. They ask us  what we are doing and so we told them what our--

Interviewer [00:36:23] The situation.

Hieu Phan [00:36:24] The situation and what our what we planned and things like that. So  at that time, I think like almost a more than half of the people on the boat doesn't want to  go. Didn’t want to go anymore. They, they, they, they, they scare. They are afraid of  course I think it’s fine. So I can understand that. Yeah. They, they say, you know, we we're  not going anymore. So they. Well, at that time it was like 1985 that time Hong Kong  refugees came was like close camp.

Hieu Phan [00:36:59] So it's not like, like before refugee camp, that open camp that you  can go out, do work and earn things like that. So it’s a closed campe and you still go in and  you stay and also the, the, speed. Or the, the time for you to get the interview is very long.  Kind of long longer than some other places especially is longer than Philippines. So sixty. I  think around sixty people, they decide to stay.

Interviewer [00:37:28] In Hong Kong.

Hieu Phan [00:37:29] In Hong Kong. And the rest which is 40 some 46 people decide to  keep going. Because in the close camp we don't know when we get interview with the, the  you know people that can qualify you to, to move the United States or Canada or  whatever. So we keep going. And there was an English, Master Chief cop was asking those people that know how to speak English at that time. Like why do you want to keep  going because it’s very dangerous. He want to kind of mention I heard after he mentioned  that not a lot people get get survive. You know things like that but for some reason we still  going. Well I was not the one who make that decision.

Interviewer [00:38:27] Your father.

Hieu Phan [00:38:30] My, my father would be so we go. So yeah, they give us a lot of like  crude oil and food and noodle and things like that so we are good we are okay. And then  thing like people would ask for things like the, the, the map and the, the compass. They  say no they can't. They, they give up food and things like that. But no compass, no map.  Why? I don't know. Okay. Well. Well then we keep going then. They, they, they, they taxi  us out of their borders. Yeah. Then we, they say the Philippines is that way. Then we keep  going.

Interviewer [00:39:08] So how much longer to the Philippines did you get to the  Philippines.

Hieu Phan [00:39:11] We did to the Philippines, yes. But yes, finally we got to the  Philippines. So we we left Hong Kong then instead of follow their direction to the  Philippines the the group of people who are running they make the decision they got to  stop by Taiwan so we stop by Taiwan.

Interviewer [00:39:33] Why?

Hieu Phan [00:39:35] I don't know. I don't know. So they stop by Taiwan and get some  more oil and food. And at that time we parked it next to the Egypt commercial boat. And  they saw us and they throw us some like apple and some cigarettes and things like that and they say like, wait and later on tonight when they, they leave Taiwan they going to tow us up there and then they going to take us with them. But right before that, the, the Taiwan  police came out and say, ah, the we, we are not, we don't have to be refugee camps in  Taiwan and we, we not taken any.

Hieu Phan [00:40:20] So you got guys have to keep moving. We give you oil you know  they provide us the fuel, the oil and the food and we keep going and then we say, no  problem, we keep going. So they pull us out of their territory and they say the Philippines is that way. And then we go. Then after that, yes, we get through a big storm, sea storm thing like that, but we survive. And then we we finally get to Philippines. And that's like  around 21 days that that know the tour you know we we on the sea.

Interviewer [00:40:57] So how long did you stay at Philippines?

Hieu Phan [00:41:02] I stay in Palawan refugee came for over four months and then after  that I mean we got, you know, like since my dad was in the Navy before. So, we are, we  are accepted to to United States. To United States. So from that, we got transferred to  Bataan, where we stayed there to learn the American culture, learn more ESL and things  like that and then over four months we we got we we arrived to United States.

Interviewer [00:41:45] Did you come straight to Virginia?

Hieu Phan [00:41:47] Well, kind of like that I mean first we land in Seattle. Right and we  do some paperwork so we can get green card and stuff like that but yeah after Seattle  yeah we we get into Virginia and I've been here since then. Yeah.

Interviewer [00:42:00] I just have one more question is can you tell me the day that you  arrived to Virginia? How did you feel?

Hieu Phan [00:42:08] Yeah. I feel. I feel very happy. And everything is it looks like when  we arrive from from the airplane was I saw. And then when you know we get off this is so  beautiful. It's beautiful country I mean all the light at night like that. I feel good. Yeah finally.  You know, we we we we make it. We here, you know, right now. So I finally yeah, it's I feel  so good. And it's beautiful country we finally here and freedom, you know, things like that.  And then the thing I say but I still think my mom and my sister to back there, you know.  Yeah.

Interviewer [00:42:52] Did they eventually come over. Your mom and sisters?

Hieu Phan [00:42:53] Yes. They came over. They waiting for my dad to sponsor them. I  think you remember that time we. You have to have a green card. Yes. Sponsor people,  right. Like your relative, your wife.

Interviewer [00:43:08] How many years before you were all reunited?

Hieu Phan [00:43:12] Well, it's a very long in my family story is very long because they are  not sponsored by my dad. They couldn't wait for so long. They escape again. So the  second escape was my my my last sister. She escape by boat, too. And then then my, my  mom and my sister also escape.

Interviewer [00:43:36] After that.

Hieu Phan [00:43:38] After that yeah. So. So they couldn't wait for my dad to sponsor  them. Because for some reason the paperwork was getting long and they they they they  were running out of patience. So they escape.

Interviewer [00:43:52] That's like my family. Three escapes, too.

Hieu Phan [00:43:55] Yeah. They they couldn’t wait they, they they out of patience. I'm so  they all escape, yeah.