Phuong Steckler

Phuong Steckler [00:00:00] My full name in English is Thanh Phuong. Steckler is my last  name and in Vietnamese is Le. My maiden name is Le Tran Thanh Phuong.  

Interviewer [00:00:12] Okay so you were born in Saigon. And can you tell me again what  year you were born?  

Phuong Steckler [00:00:17] 1970.  

Interviewer [00:00:19] So what are your earliest memories of living in Saigon?  

Phuong Steckler [00:00:23] I must have been like when I was three years old. I was still  in a pacifier. The youngest of three, the only girl. I don't know, maybe my mom. My mom is  very disciplined, but for some reason she. Didn't stop me from. Getting off my pacifier. And  one day, my parents just had a fight about something, and Mom got upset, and I was  complaining about something. I wanted something and. And she got mad. She grabbed  my pacifier.  

Phuong Steckler [00:00:54] And she threw it into the trash. And I remember I was a little  scared. I mean I don't want to go and take that out of the trash can. And I kept looking at it.  And looking at it. And then I decided alright I don't dare to go and grab that. And she never  gave me back another pacifier. And that was the end of it. Three, three years old is all I  remember from that time. She didn't even remember that whole episode.

Phuong Steckler [00:01:17] But that etched in my memory. And then the next memory is  very close to that. I was in kindergarten. Well, actually, that first one was in a different  town. When my dad was stationed. He was in charge of some region.  

Interviewer [00:01:34] What did he do?  

Phuong Steckler [00:02:04] He was a, you wouldn’t call like Coast Guards. But he he watches over one of the four regions in Vietnam along the Mekong River. He was out  there. So the last one right before the Fall of Saigon, he was in Cần Thơ. And so that's  where they catch all the smugglers, the smugglers with arms, you know, coming from  China and all that. So he was out there. So I guess that part of the call, the river patrols  type of thing. But he was he was involved on the Navy side.  

Phuong Steckler [00:02:18] So the American Navy trained him fleet training in in San  Diego the year I was born. So. Mom was pregnant with me when he left, and then he went  over there for six months and I was supposed to have been born a month before he came  home. And mom had a a false alarm, went to the hospital and then there was nothing. And  so they sent her home. 20 some days later, I was born. But she always tells the story that I  was born that day because one thing was the doctor threatened to induce her and he said,  you can't have that baby so late.  

Phuong Steckler [00:02:58] And so she was terrified. She didn't want to be induced. And  then she said maybe she was so terrified that the next day she gave birth to me. But it was  also the day my dad came home. And so I was born in the morning and he came home in  the afternoon and came in the hospital to visit. And my mom was always very proud of

saying she kind of waited a little longer just to greet dad. But then I didn't have any gifts  coming from the US. Because he didn't know it was a boy or girl.  

Interviewer [00:03:30] And are you the last?  

Phuong Steckler [00:03:32] I was the last, yeah.  

Interviewer [00:03:37] And what did your mom do for a living?  

Phuong Steckler [00:03:40] She didn't really do anything until the Communists came. And  my dad was in the camp reeducation camp, and she became, she found a job as a nurse  at a factory  

Interviewer [00:03:48] Your father came back after you were born. So that was around  1970. Yeah. So did he have to go back out, like, during the war, or was he home?  

Phuong Steckler [00:04:08] No, that was it. He went from one assignment to the next.  They, my parents always talked about. This is a funny thing because my dad was a hard  head. He didn't like kissing up to the superiors, so he kept getting moved around. So they  were going to be transferred back to Saigon from Cần Thơ.  

Phuong Steckler [00:04:41] He said it's the fourth region in that area. The fourth region Vùng Bốn, in Vietnamese, and they were going to be transferred back to Saigon. So  months before they went back and bought a house ready to be moving everybody back.  And that was kind of where my mom grew up and where I was born. And then through my  dad's assignments, he was floating all over different cities. And then they finally came back  to that.

Phuong Steckler [00:05:03] So they were going to settle in a few months. They got the  house to them, you know, in their names already. But they weren't ready to move back yet.  And then the whole news in April occurred when my dad was taking a break. I don't know.  It was like a a week long break. I should check with him about this. I never really no  thought about it now, but they were already in Saigon.  

Phuong Steckler [00:05:38] They weren't ready to have his assignments moved there yet.  But then they heard about the Americans pulling out. And so everybody was in a panic  mode. People were trying to flee and all this. But my mom convinced him to go back to his  command of his post because it was towards the end of the month and they were only his  soldiers were paid monthly. And she said they usually get paid by the at the end of the  month. And if he's not there to sign off their paperwork to get paid, if there's, you know,  dangers of of the enemy, you know, taking over, then people will be stuck without money.  And they were already waiting for a month.  

Phuong Steckler [00:06:24] And so she convinced him to go back into that little town in  Cần Thơ. Just one night, you know, to get all that stuff in and then we would leave. They  still tell me that everybody, you know, as they drive back into the town, the evacuation  route was just packed with people leaving this small town. But they felt like it was the right  thing to do. So they would go back there regardless of if they were going to get slowed  down when we leave. But that night. So this is part of my childhood memory that I  remember on my own, as well as through years of my parents talking to their friends and  retelling.

Phuong Steckler [00:07:12] So it helps capture my memory longer. So my parents  normally get up in the middle of the night to do meditation we’re Buddhist, and they would  get up, wash their face and then go sit down for the old age, you know, and just sit up for  meditation. And my mom said that she remembered getting back onto the bed to sit and  was just folding her legs to sit up. And she heard, boom, you know, deep sound out there  like it was being bombed, but kind of a little further away. And then they kind of jolted and  they just sat there and was waiting for the next one. And she said another boom. And  they're like, we're being attacked.  

Phuong Steckler [00:08:12] So they all got up. So that was part of her recall of what  happened. So I hear that and I almost can envision it because it's all these years. But what  I really remember from there was I've never seen my dad in camo fatigues. You know, he  was always working like a civilian. You know, he's just office chair right now. But that day  he put on his uniform, you know, uniform. I saw guns all around. I was like. Woah, you  know, it's just stuff like that that etched into your memory. And so. They tried to move the  family out. This is I have two older brothers, so was just five of us. We even have our dogs  with us. You know, they travel everywhere with my parents.  

Phuong Steckler [00:08:50] And I remember somebody brought me to the foxhole where my dad was already there. And I don't I can't even remember if it was my well, any of my  relative, my brothers or my mom were with me. But I remember being in that foxhole and  

looking over and seeing my dad with you know, have a uniform that I'm not used to seeing  him in.  

Phuong Steckler [00:09:24] Actually it was terrified. And then their plan was going to hop  into the patrol boat to leave from the waterway out. And in the in the rush, they pull apart  the boat from the dock and they dropped the water tank down into the river and they didn't  have time to go fish it out, take it back. So somebody didn't secure it.  

Interviewer [00:09:40] For the motor boat?

Phuong Steckler [00:09:42] Yeah, the patrol boat. They had several tanks, I guess a  couple of tanks of drinking water and somebody didn't secure it. Right. So when they pull  the part away from the dock, the movement forced the a couple of those tanks just kind of  rolled off and went into the water. So they had no drinking water and they were gonna my  dad said he was just going to go straight out to the the carriers if he could have enough.  You know, if they have enough gas you know fuel to do it.  

And but on the way there it will take a while. On the way there, we had no drinking water.  And I was I was thirsty. And so during the day, he started up I remember a few images in  my mind still sunny day. And my brother's apparently caught some flying fish and was  trying to put it in this little bowl.  

And I remember looking at it and there was some oil, you know, kind of dripped, you know,  you can kind of see that that it was mixed in with that actually the water that they had  remaining, I believe it was kind of mixed in. It was kind of dirty water. And so it's got some  fuel kind of leaked onto the edge and then it got into the water. And that's that's probably  why they couldn't drink the rest of that. So my mom always said, you know, she was trying  to see if she can just wipe off the oil to drink, but it was just impossible. And that was the  reason why we didn't make it all the way out to the carrier.  

Interviewer [00:11:19] How far did you get did they tell you?

Phuong Steckler [00:11:21] Gosh, I don't know. I don't think they even make it out to the, to the sea. But I remember seeing a big ship that was supposed to be a fishing ship.  Vietnamese owned that my dad stopped them and was trying to ask them to help take us  out to the carriers. And they had excuses and they said they weren't going to do that. You  know, the negotiator I remember waiting to hear from my dad coming out and see what  happened. And he came out and he said, no, it's not work.  

They I guess they refused to take us. My dad even offered to pay them to take the family  out.  

Phuong Steckler [00:12:02] Yeah. So his soldiers were going to go with him. But then  halfway through, they changed their minds, and they just said. We probably want to go  back to the family, you know, from the town. So it was just going to be our family, you  know, getting out. And he couldn't get the fishing boat because it felt like it was a ship to  me. It was big enough. At that time, I was little, but they were definitely they had enough  fuel that they could have taken us, but they refused. And it's funny. Years later, my parents  were a little bit bitter about that and said they were probably commies because they  wanted they didn't want to help us get out. They had all the fuel.  

Interviewer [00:12:46] They sailed by you guys.  

Phuong Steckler [00:12:48] Yeah they were nearby and my dad flagged them and tried to  negotiate, and they went on board their ship. And then when he came back out, they said  they refuse. He said they refused.  

Interviewer [00:13:02] And so was this on April 30th or 28th?

Phuong Steckler [00:13:04] It was it was, it's got to be the 28th. So they refused. And we  had no way to go for we didn't have enough drinking water to last for a couple more days if  needed. So they decided, you know what? We'll take it. Whatever our fate will be, we'll go  home. And they came home and my my dad turned himself in in the city.  

The day he went in that night, a group of people came. It was a rainy night and they had  some hooded covers on them, like ponchos. And they came knocking on the door and my  mom answered it through this little peephole, you know, those the door where you lock  your metal doors. We had those sliding doors, accordion doors, and there was these little  openings right where you can put your lock pads or whatever. And my mom answered and  was peering out and she was just about 3 or 4 of them out there with coats on, so she  couldn't see their faces, but they were asking for my dad.  

My and my mom said he already went into the reeducation camp today. And so they said,  oh okay. So then they left. So my parents thought that they were probably the people from  the town where he came, where he his post was. Now, if he was delayed by one day, they  would have taken him. And then they knew exactly what he was doing, what his former job  

was, his post. That would have been worse. So he turned in in a town where the people  that took him in processed him, didn't know who he really was.

And so every day he said when they when it when they started out in one camp going to  the next, they moved them around for a few days. But he said that every day they would  put out a blank piece of paper and say, here, write up what you did. And then they read it.  He would say he didn't really say what he was doing. He claimed that he was a civilian. He

was a like before he was drafted, he he was a drafter. You know. Architectural drawings  and sort of things. And so he said, you know, he was working like a civilian. And every day  they come back, crumple up the paper and just put another sheet. Here write it again.  

They were trying to catch him in a lie and he stayed consistent with his story. And they  basically put him in a camp where along with all. It's like what you call the white collar  prison. It was like lawyers and doctors and, you know, so not a lot of military people, but so  it's low security. And he was there for about three and a half years. Yeah. And it was only  because he lied about his background.  

Interviewer [00:16:10] Did your mom and the family get to see him during that time.  

Phuong Steckler [00:16:12] So she did not hear from him for a month. She said it was 30  days gone by when she started thinking that she needed, she needed to go find him. And  she went from one place and people say, he could be in that camp. And she just tracked  him down. Eventually he did track him down the last camp, if I remember correctly, trại cải  tạo.

Phuong Steckler [00:16:36] Now, I believe, is one of the camps that's pretty well known, I  guess, in the community but it was still in the South. At his ranking, my uncle went up to  Hanoi, you know, from the North, and he was there for eight years. My dad managed to  get by with three and a half and that was also because my mom had, her maternal uncle.  Left as part of the Viet Minh go into the North to fight the French. And then they became  communists up there. So they split the country. He stayed up there until the Fall of Saigon,  and then he moved back. And he was my grandmother's he’s the full brother that my  grandmother had half siblings, but he was the only one that was the last two of that  marriage, you know. And then then my my great grandmother passed away after that.  

So those two with same, you know, same parents. But he went early on to the North to try  to fight. And he still has his ideology of, you know, fighting against the French. They were  dominating us and all that stuff. But he came back with, you know, a little bit of a ranking  according to the Party. So he did put in a word to try to ask for clemency for my dad. And  so some of that could be just that. My dad was already in a low security camp. And, you  know, and then my great uncle was just kind of helping push it a little bit because towards  the end of his time, his captivity, they relaxed the security so that men were leaving the  camp for the weekend to go home.  

They they took the train, get to the next city, and then had a safe house that they stayed  overnight. And then the next day they catch busses or other trains and then they go home.  And then as long as they come back in by Monday morning, roll call, they're safe. And I  think it's just. The Communists were looking away. You know, this was, you know, three,  three and a half years into their camp there.  

And so they they were kind of easing up a little bit. So then dad followed suit and he  escaped to sort of from the camp site there Was a safe house. This lady's home she would  house. You know, these men coming through at night. Just give them a place to rest and  and sleep because they had to get out at night. So she would save them there, you know,  for for a few hours. They get a little sleep. And then next morning, early on, they leave.  

So my dad would come home like the first day he came home on a Saturday morning. We  were like, my mom was terrified. She's like, What are you doing here? Are you Did they let  you out? It was no, just visiting.

Interviewer [00:19:47] Like, I have to be back by Monday.  

Phuong Steckler [00:19:49] Right? Yeah So I guess, you know, I didn't really think of it so  much, but it was very bittersweet the first time that he had to go back on a Sunday.  

Interviewer [00:20:00] And where you confused?

Phuong Steckler [00:20:03] You know, I didn't think so much of it. I was kind of like. Great, You know. So that's okay. You're not in trouble, right? And so he would come home  and then he would leave Sunday night. Sunday day morning, I guess, because there's a  whole trip on the train. And as long as he arrives there at night on Sunday night, sleep,  they don't discover anything or that.  

Maybe they did know, but they just weren't being strict. So then roll call comes and it's fine.  So he did it for a few times. I don't think it was a lot. From my memory, it felt like he only  did that weekly for about a month or so. One of the trips he got injured badly because the  train on his way home sometimes skips that station and he was told by the locals, you've  got to be careful. Sometimes they skip, they skip, then you have to go to the next station,  which is really far out. And, you know, he's just he was warned. But then so the same thing  happened.  

He was approaching that station, but it slowed down but didn't really stop. So he kind of  freaked out. He didn't want to spend more time going up there and come back and who's  going to help him? And so he jumped off the the train and he got sucked in underneath the  train just when it was going slow enough. But it was the edge of like rocks, you know, It  was like a it was going under a bridge or something.  

And it's still got boulders type of rocks on both sides. And he said he just had to take the  risk of jumping often will be okay. But because it was going so slowly but somehow you roll  back in underneath the train. And he stayed there. So he came home. The locals had  helped him bandaged up. He was, he said then it was just spouting blood coming out. Was  it hit an artery or something? But that was the scary part.  

And he still talks about it to this day of how dangerous that was. But at the time when I  found out about it, I didn't hear that how bad it was. I thought he can kind of roll close to  the wheels and kind of like that gravity pull kind of thing. But then some years later, he  said, no, I actually went underneath the train and I had to lay down flat for it to pass. And  then he realized he was bloody, but he came home with a little sling thing. And that was  the only experience that was, you know, that I remembered, scary.  

Interviewer [00:22:40] So was he released in 78?  

Phuong Steckler [00:22:43] 78. Three and a half years or sometime like that in the middle  of 78.  

Interviewer [00:22:46] Okay. And so you would have been about eight years old when he  came home? What was that like?  

Phuong Steckler [00:22:53] The fact that he kept coming home for a few weeks  preceding.

Interviewer [00:22:57] It kind of soften the transition.

Phuong Steckler [00:22:59] Yes, it softened it. So I didn't even realize that he was going  to be home permanently. I just figured, well, he's going to go back. And to me, I think by  then I kind of got used to it. And it wasn't a big deal like okay dad is going back, you know,  I was fine.  

Interviewer [00:23:14] Do you remember the time that he was away? What was it like at  home?  

Phuong Steckler [00:23:18] Yes, I was in school. Is this memory still stayed on with me a  few days or. Actually, I think it was more like the first few months after my dad left. My  mom found a job in Binh Hoa, is where she would take the bus out there. And she was a  nurse at a manufacturing, a steel manufacturing company.  

And so during the day I was five years old. My brothers went to school and they ride a bike  to their school. So, you know, they were off on their own. I had school at a different time.  My oldest brother, who is eight years older than me, he would either he or my mom,  depending on when.  

But it was like once she started working, he was trying to help and he would take me to  school on the bike. And then. When I came home, I would be home alone. And there was  one time my parent’s maid she stop working for us once. You know, the country went into chaos and she she decided to stay with her home, her family .  

So we were without a caretaker at home. And so when I come back from school, I was at  home by myself. And I remembered I think it must have been a couple of months later, she  came out to visit us and she came to the door and I was by myself and she asked me to  open the door and I said, I'm not sure if I should open the Door for you because I was told  not to open to anybody. Even though I recognized her. And she said, No, it's okay, I'm just  visiting. And so I eventually opened the door and she she stayed around, waited till my  mom came home. And I remember she was crying.  

Phuong Steckler [00:25:07] So I think she was very emotional, too, because I was the  baby, the family. I was pampered. I think even until I was. 3 or 4 years old. You know, we  call her like, you know, I call her like the big sister. She was she was about 18. She was  the oldest in her family. And so she just the whole family just needed some income help,  you know, And so she decided to go out and help out and to get some money. And, I was  so spoiled to the point where she was feeding me, four years old. I can't even believe I  would do that for my own children.  

But I was known to be like a very slow eater. Took forever for her to feed me. But I would  call her my big sister. And she came to visit. It didn't occur. It didn't occur to me at the time  there was any big deal. But looking back. It was funny. I was kind of amazed at myself that  I was well-behaved and stay out of trouble just being quiet at home and. She was feeling  sorry for me. And I remember her crying to my mom talking and she said, I couldn't believe  it. You know, just I came here and she was by herself.  

But, she just wanted to visit us. There was just no way she would come to the city to help.  We didn't have any money anyway. But it didn't occur to me that it was any big deal about  it until years later when I could kind of think to myself. At five years old, I would never

leave my child at five years old home alone. But. All I remember during the time I had  nothing to do was just in the house and I got bored.

So there was a bench. It was kind of like a day bed, but it was more like a bench. But it  was, you know, wide. And we use it kind of like afternoon nap for me. I'd stay on that. Take  a nap after school, I come back. I don't even remember feeding myself during that time I  was home. I would stand on top of it. And the wall, the wall on that side of the bed was up  against the wall. And I took a pencil and I just wrote junk thoughts. It's just my doodling  pad. Just thoughts, you know, whatever I wanted to do, I stayed there. I was very  obedient. At least I stay in that corner of the house because I was too scared to go up all  around the house.  

Interviewer [00:28:10] And were your older brothers--

Phuong Steckler [00:28:12] While my brothers were off at school. Yeah, because they  were older. So their time is different, but they had to be in school at the time I was at  home, I guess I was and I was five, so I was in kindergarten. So I just my free time, I would  stand up on that bench and just wrote stuff on the wall.  

I remember my mom was yelling at me just like, you know, you better stop that. You can't  be just drawing. And this is like where we, you know, the main room. When you get, you  know, guests coming over. You greet them from that area. But I have all my doodling. All  sorts of stuff. And that's how I spent my time until my brothers came home and my mom  came home.  

Interviewer [00:28:59] Do you remember what year your family left Vietnam?  Phuong Steckler [00:29:02] Yes, 1980.  

Interviewer [00:29:05] 1980. Okay. So by that time you were ten?  

Phuong Steckler [00:29:07] No, it's not my birthday yet, so I was nine and a half.  Interviewer [00:29:12] Okay.  

Phuong Steckler [00:29:13] Yeah. So at first, my when my dad came home, his whole  purpose was trying to research a way to get out. And because he had some Navy training.  He decided he was going to go the boat path, you know, by sea because it's probably it's  you know, we had heard a lot of stories of pirates and all that, but they figure that there's a  more likelihood of us being alive at sea than going on land by foot.

So he came home and he was searching. I remember him going out and buying his draft  drafting equipment, you know, compasses and special compasses and all these things  that big drafting paper and maps and all that stuff.  

Interviewer [00:30:08] Did you have an idea of what was how he knew?  

Phuong Steckler [00:30:10] He said he wanted to research how far it takes to go to  Malaysia. Although they I don't think they were they wanted to say too much to a little kid,  you know, to keep the privacy there.

But I remember dad was showing, this is Malaysia and this and that. So he was always.  Configuring ways to get that. I didn't know what it was, but he just he just studied the map  and angles and where you would sail out. And because his point was you really want to  go. But he didn't know, like how he wouldn't be navigating it, but he just wanted to know  what would it take for us to leave? What's the shortest way?  

And so he researched on that. But meanwhile, they were looking for connections to get us  out. And a couple of failed times they lost money. And my oldest brother was reaching 17.  And so they said they really have to get him out because they didn't want him to go serve  in Cambodia.  

They would draft and send him over there. And so they couldn't send just him. So they  wanted one of the uncles to go. And so the first uncle that came with us was the one that  my dad really trusted. He was going to send that uncle who was not married to go with my  brother. The point was my uncle would help. You know, make money over here. And be  the guardian. For my brother and make money.  

And then he would help the family. And that operation failed because one of the two  busses that would meet down at the meeting location, it broke down a flat tire. And so they  were late and had several people on there. So they decided to call off the whole the  meeting and send everybody home.  

So we thought my brother was already left and, you know, my uncle, they were gone. So  suddenly one day my brother came home on a borrowed bicycle and drove straight into  the house. We had it open and I was playing outside. It was straight in the house. And I  remember thinking, why? Why is he back?  

Interviewer [00:32:24] So you knew he was going.  

Phuong Steckler [00:32:25] I knew he was going, I didn't know he would be permanently  gone. You know, it's kind of like we would be away. But then he came home. And so  because of that, my dad was able to go back and renegotiate with the owner.  

So the connection was basically two fishermen from that town. They built a new boat, a  small one, and they were going to leave themselves. They were so the main guy, the  owner had a his wife and a three year old son, and then his grandmother was 81, 80, 81  year old grandmother was going to come with him. And they built this boat and they were  going to leave.  

So that seemed like a sure thing. We knew they would just, you know, take the money and  run because his interest is in it to to leave. So we went back to negotiate and they said,  well, if you if you want to help us out, you can be the assistant and the family can come. If  you can get a few more people to pay and come join us.  

So my parents did reach out and found through some friends, you know, a couple more  people. And so they were able to have the rest of us to come. So in a way, it was a  blessing that it was delayed. But then we all went and my dad was supposed to be the  assistant. We got out on the high seas and those two men got sick.  

Interviewer [00:33:58] But did they talk to you before the trip?

Phuong Steckler [00:34:00] No. At first they were telling me we were going to go visit  your grandparents and my dad. His hometown. Nha Trang. But he left when he was 16. So  every summer we were to go visit my grandparents, my paternal grandparents. We go  there in the summer, and I didn't really get to visit them much. I mean, at least the times  that I remembered, I was I was too young prior to that. But then after that, you know, Mom.  

Maybe every other year or something. I only remember like two times going back there,  but it would be in the summer to go visit them without my dad. And so they would say, you  know, let's get ready. We're going to go visit grandparents, you know their home.  

And and so that’s sort of all I thought that it was, but I really didn't question because we  didn't end up in my grandparents, you know, it was somewhere else. And I think they they  they revealed a little bit, but not a lot. So I wasn't the kind of kid that questioned at the  time, so I just went with the flow.  

Interviewer [00:35:05] Did you pack anything with you? Did the family pack anything?

Phuong Steckler [00:35:08] Yeah, they had these tote bags style. Very temporary. I  mean, like, they're kind of like the reusable shopping bags nowadays. I mean, there's just  a couple of tote bags.  

Phuong Steckler [00:35:21] They sold a big house so that they can move into this little,  teeny little house that my parents built between. My grandma. The house where my  grandmother lived. And it was actually the house that belonged to a school. High school in  Saigon Chuyên Lê Hồng Phong.

Phuong Steckler [00:35:41] My aunt was a teacher there, so they let her have that house  that was right next to the school to live. And my grandmother was living in there before she  left in 1975. So then my parents got married and they built a little tiny house right next to it.  

They bought the land and they built this really small house. And then they left for years.  And my great grandfather would stay there until he passed away.  

Phuong Steckler [00:36:08] And my parents were going to liquidate. Well, at least sell  their house. They didn't even get it was supposedly like some 10% down payment or  something. And they didn't even get that much out of that house. The the down payment  alone. They moved everybody, all our belongings back into this little tiny house. I think we  must have been there about a week or two. So we moved.  

Phuong Steckler [00:36:32] And then. So basically, the buyer of our old home pretty  much got it for free. But we went in there with the intention that we're going to leave it.  We're going to go into the small one. And then we left from there. And I remember--

Interviewer [00:36:48] Did you say when you were, you were in school at the time?  Phuong Steckler [00:36:51] I was in school

Interviewer [00:36:52] So did you say bye to your friends? Did you say, I'm going to my  grandparents?  

Phuong Steckler [00:36:54] Not even that. I mean, I don't think it was anything we  announced early. But it was unusual because we don't normally visit during the school  year. And of course, I never question that. I just figured it was a visit. Yeah.

Interviewer [00:37:06] So what was that day like? Did you leave in the daytime?  

Phuong Steckler [00:37:09] In the morning, in the very early in the morning? I want to say  it was like 6:00. I just dawn when we got up, packed up and just small bags. It was enough  of these protein bars that they were like Chinese made or something that people can just  carry that when they travel far distance. So you could eat that, you know.  And gosh. I don't even think they packed much water. But it was just like the bags that they  had some food in there. My dad, made this these blocks of wood. He drilled a hole. And  that was where we put the cash, the American dollars in there. And my mom still has. So  they took whatever's left. It was really not much she made. She had a wedding band that  wasn’t theirs, but it was how they stored monetary value of anything that stable.

So if it's gold, not the bars or anything like that, but they made into these rings, so they're  smaller and you can negotiate by, you know, exchanging, you know, rings for whatever.  So they they made this. And my mom had one ring. I think she had her wedding band with  the diamonds. That was the only thing. It was very, you know.  

Very few things that they kept was, you know, memories more for the sake of that. But for  monetary, I think they had some American dollars they'd bought. And my dad drilled this  block of wood. It look like it's just a spare block of wood. He drilled it and then he put the  plug in it. And they they put in some dollars in there. And that was going to be just  something they threw on the side. If we get attacked by pirates, nobody would know what  it was.  

But it was just a piece of wood. And so in the end, my mom said, yeah, all I have left of  what we took out of that country was a wedding band, the value only. And then they had  their own wedding bands. And I think it was her diamond ring that Dad bought for like, an  anniversary thing. And that was it. And I think we had like three of these totes.  

Interviewer [00:39:38] How long were you at sea for?  

Phuong Steckler [00:39:40] Three days.  

Interviewer [00:39:41] How many people were on the trip with you?  

Phuong Steckler [00:39:43] Third day Actually, it was-- I think they were. They were in the  30s. I want to say like 34, 35 people on there that I was the one of the youngest. So there  weren’t many kids. The three year old that was the son of the owner. And then me next. I  was nine and then my older brother was 14 at the time. And then my 17 year old oldest  brother. Everybody else was roughly that age. But we never really bonded because it was  just a short time. Yeah, the first eventful thing.  

Interviewer [00:40:23] It was a scary time.  

Phuong Steckler [00:40:26] It was scary because we left the second day after Lunar New  Year. They purposely picked that date so that everybody else is in celebratory mode and  drinking and celebrating and and not really paying attention to the coast, you know,  checking the security.  

So they slipped out at night. So they went by by boat. That little rowboat went out to that  boat that they built for it and then slowly, slowly pulled out. So my dad was-- so the

fishermen, the two of them, him and his partner was recently married. He's all he has his  wife. And she came along.

So they pulled out of the out of, you know, away from the coast. And then my dad took  over, except that when we got out to the international waters. The sea started to rise. You  know, it was just it was choppy already. And then the storm came through that night and  those men actually fell sick, seasick, and they were laying around. So my dad took over.  And from that point, all the way till we landed in Malaysia.  

Interviewer [00:41:32] And how long were you in Malaysia for?  

Phuong Steckler [00:41:34] So we were. Seven months at Pulau Bidong and then a  month at the camp right before we flew over here. It was the final health check.  

Interviewer [00:41:50] Still in Malaysia, right. It's a bigger camp.

Phuong Steckler [00:41:53] So during this during these three days, there actually a  couple of interesting things. One was, you know, my dad signal for a ship, a commercial  ship from a far distance signal for help. And they signal back, acknowledging and they  were coming closer.  

We were trying to get closer to them. And then at some point, they kind of slowly went  further away from us. I think it's because they realized once they came close, they realized  it was a refugee boat and they didn't want to stop and help. So as he chased, they got  further and further away. But that was actually the second event. The first one that first  night was just seasickness.  

The next night we saw a boat that was Thai fishing boat and signal for help. They signal  back. They got closer and my dad panics because he realized from the sound of it, they  look like they're Thai. And the stories we had in those days was if you were attacked by  Malaysian pirates, they're not as bad.  

But the Thai pirates really did a toll on a lot of people. So the horror stories came back  home and my dad just did not want to to be trapped in that mode. And he said, this is not  good. And then fortunately, the boat owner had commissioned some knives and machetes  and tools for for defending ourselves. They were still wrapped up in cloth.  

Interviewer [00:43:28] So tell me, what state or city did you arrive in in the United States.  Did you have relatives in Maryland?  

Phuong Steckler [00:43:34] Maryland, yes, my aunt was the younger sister to my mom,  used to work for UNICEF before the Fall of Saigon. And she was married, No kids. So she  was allowed to bring her parents and her in-laws. But at the time, only her mother in law  was alive.  

My grandfather didn't want to go. So in his place, they they brought my youngest aunt,  who was 18 at the time, and they came with the lift April 28th. And. They arrived. My. My  aunt's friend. Vietnamese over there. Childhood friends, I guess. But she was already here  in America. In Maryland. She was married to an an American, you know. And so, she lived  here for a number of years, and so she was the sponsor for my, for my aunt and my  grandmother.

Interviewer [00:44:38] And then your aunt sponsored you guys?

Phuong Steckler [00:44:40] No. So when we came, my grandmother was sponsoring my  mom and along with her family. So we did that. But my uncle, who came along with us, my  father's younger brother, was sponsored by my aunt in the you know, with the status of a  cousin, you know, a distant cousin. But yeah, they, they pretty much we, we came to live  with them.  

Interviewer [00:45:06] Tell me, do you remember then what your first few months in the  United States was like?  

Phuong Steckler [00:45:12] Yeah. Ronald Reagan was running for office and he was on  television a lot. I. I remember always running for president. I didn't really think so much of  it.  

Interviewer [00:45:23] Did you speak any English?  

Phuong Steckler [00:45:25] No. No. So I watch TV and kind of just watch pictures. So I  spent a lot of my first year with television. Cartoons. Had to be one of those that you can't  understand necessarily in English. So like Tom and Jerry, Woody Woodpecker, Mighty  Mouse, things that just didn't have a lot of talking. I would watch. Scooby Doo was  something I didn't care for because they talked too much.  

Interviewer [00:45:56] How was school for you?  

Phuong Steckler [00:45:58] It was interesting. I was in Silver Spring, Maryland. It was  walking distance probably a half mile away from the apartment we stayed at and my mom,  my grandmother. So there was a bus that they would come through the neighborhood and  pick us up.  

And then if you didn't want to take the bus, you can walk, but it's a little longer. And. It was  a very diverse area is really downtown Silver Spring and. But that was the school where  there were a lot of kids learning ESL English as a second language. But I felt most  discriminated there. The only thing that got me by was my math. I was pretty good at math.  That was kind of universal.  

Interviewer [00:46:46] Like, how did you feel discriminated?  

Phuong Steckler [00:46:48] The kids made fun of me. You know, they make these  sounds like they're imitating Chinese sound and, you know, just just mocking. But I think  it's because that school had a, it's very diverse kids from different cultures there. But but in  a way, it made them, you know, made us being more of a target for them to make fun of.  

I remember that at the end of the school year, I, I came in, so I left Vietnam when I was in  fourth grade. And because of all the months spent in the camp, when I joined again, I had  to repeat fourth grade. So I was always ahead of my my age group. And I was, sorry.  

I meant I was older than the rest of them. And I felt like, now I have to repeat another  grade. And. These kids at the end the school year, when I was a little bit better with my  English, I definitely found solace with the teacher who taught ESL because I felt like they  understood us.

Interviewer [00:48:05] Were there other Vietnamese--

Phuong Steckler [00:48:07] They understood us the most and our struggles and. And I  would get awards in math. It was the only subject I excelled in. And towards the end of the.  School year, I remember.  

So there were a couple of girls I try to hang out with, one of them quite religious, and she  tried to befriend me, very calm manner, but she was very good friends with this other girl  who seemed kind of mean all the time. So at the end of the school year, we were  supposed to clean our desk. So Ajax was sprinkled on all of the table tops, and we were  supposed to wet it and rub it. Well, suddenly piece of paper got crumpled and thrown over  to my way, and I looked up.  

Trying to figure out where it came from. I didn't know it was like back down to my business  and threw another one. And then they caught. I caught them giggling, you know, And I was  like, I felt betrayed because all year long.  

I thought that I was at least accepted by them. You know, there was one girl who's  religious, and she was always nice to me, but her friend was really me. And so I felt that  and I, I, I got in sort of a confrontational mood and I wasn't going to put up with that. So I  went to my teacher and of course, still a little bit broken English, but I didn't really explain. I  just told me that they were throwing at me. And this is a really old teacher. She was getting  ready to retire, I guess.  

And she was ignoring it. She didn't even say anything to them. And they were like sitting  there laughing. I really felt betrayed the entire year that I figured they would at least accept  me and I still didn't make it in there.  

But anyway, so we moved after that and went to Prince George's County over there where  I was really the only Asian student in this school where they were trying to bus students  from different places to mix it up, you know, and I actually was very welcome there. So  there was a big difference. I was because my English got better.  

There was a school nearby. The apartments where we lived that had the ESL program.  But they check me out and they said, you know, she doesn't need it. Told my dad she  doesn't need it. She can just go to the school where they bussed all of these kids from the  apartment complex to another school about 15 minutes away. There was no easel  program over there. And I somehow managed to fit in so well.  

Interviewer [00:50:37] And that's English as a second language.  

Phuong Steckler [00:50:39] English as a second language. And they didn't have that  program where I was going, where there was a school closer. I could have gone there, but  they said I didn't need it. But they also, you know, bussing that apartment complex over  the whole school, they didn't want to have to make an exception for me to go local. But  anyway, I think that really helped me because that just threw me into that freshwater, you  know, like I'm trying to swim.  

Interviewer [00:51:00] Force you to integrate.

Phuong Steckler [00:51:08] And those people actually were accepting of me. The only  problem was I was on the bus with a lot of African-American kids in this apartment

complex, and they were making fun of me. Of course, making sounds like, you know,  Chinese sounds mocking. Somebody spit at me. They were causing problems. And I try to  keep to myself. But the second year or so, I went fifth grade. I went to this new school.  Then my English got better. Sixth grade, I was asked to be a patrol you know, for my bus.  

Interviewer [00:51:38] And so did that build your confidence?  

Phuong Steckler [00:51:39] Yes, it did. And I think that was the purpose for this. The  principal was very supportive of me. And so they would make fun of me and I would just  turn around and. Yeah. So anyway.  

Interviewer [00:51:52] Yeah, do you have children now?  

Phuong Steckler [00:51:54] Yes, two  

Interviewer [00:51:56] Okay. So thinking back on, you know, what you've gone through as  a family with your parents and your siblings and also the challenges in coming to the  United States and being in a school where you felt discriminated against. What are some  things that you have shared with your children when they are faced with challenges or  adversity?  

Phuong Steckler [00:52:16] Yeah. I, I tell them. You don't know how hard it was, you  know, for for me. You have it really good right now. You were born here. You speak the  language. Yeah. So my kids are in right now. I have an interracial marriage and so my kids  are mixed. And so I said to them, you don't have the stereotypes that they make fun of  Asian kids.  

You know, they make these Chinese sounds and just mocking like all the time. And I said  whenever they came across the whole thing, I said, This is nothing. This is nothing. Don't  let them see you sweat and pick it up and run like you fall down and you pick up and run.  This is really easy compared to what I went through. The thing is that they said, well, you  can't compare this to your experience because you know you're a different generation or  

something like that, but they really have it easy now.

It's too pampered, you know? And when we were growing up, what was it the other day, I  said to them, what did you do after school or something like that? I said, really? I didn't  have a lot of activities at the school because I was trying to study and learning. You know,  doing anything in a second language is is tough. And I said, now we got to figure out a way  to put you guys in the summer you know.  

Interviewer [00:53:43] It's a different time. Different, very.  

Phuong Steckler [00:53:45] Different. I try not to spoil them, though. I said, toughen up. I  just. You know, it's. It's too easy for them right now. I keep telling them.